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August 24, 2018

What is More Important than Marketing? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 227)

August 24, 2018 | By | No Comments

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What's more important than marketing? Photo of team working together to improve customer experience

What is More Important than Marketing? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 227) – Headlines and Show Notes

Subscribe to Thinks Out Loud

Contact information for the podcast: podcast@timpeter.com

Past Insights from Tim Peter Thinks

You might also want to check out these slides I had the pleasure of presenting recently about the key trends shaping marketing in the next year. Here are the slides for your reference:

Technical Details for Thinks Out Loud

Recorded using a Heil Sound PR 30 Large Diaphragm Multipurpose Dynamic Microphone through a Cloud Microphones CL-1 Cloudlifter Mic Activator and a Mackie Onyx Blackjack USB recording interface into Logic Express 9 for the Mac.

Running time: 13m 32s

You can subscribe to Thinks Out Loud in iTunes [iTunes link], the Google Play Store, via our dedicated podcast RSS feed )(or sign up for our free newsletter). You can also download/listen to the podcast here on Thinks using the player at the top of this page.

What’s More Important Than Marketing? Transcript

Well, hello again everyone, and welcome back to Thinks Out Loud, your source for all the digital marketing expertise your business needs. My name is Tim Peter. Today is Friday, August 24, 2018. This is episode 227 of the big show, and I think we’ve got a really great show for you.

Before I get into it too deeply, I want to thank our sponsor. We’re brought to you by Solo Segment. Solo Segment focuses on AI driven content discovery and site search analytics that unlock revenue. You can learn more about how to improve your search results and customer satisfaction for your site visitors by going to solosegment.com.

Now, it is funny, I didn’t do this on purpose, but it is funny that we’re talking about customer satisfaction because I heard a great couple of stories in the last couple weeks that I wanted to share with you. The first is I was having dinner not long ago with Mark Schaefer who is a long-time friend of the show. He’s a fellow instructor at Rutgers University, Rutgers Business School, and we were having some discussions about how people think about your brand in the longer term, and what makes them choose your brand in the longer term.

Mark reminded me of a McKinsey study from several years back that I thought was fascinating, and I thought was really, really worth reviewing. It’s from 2012 or 2013, so it may seem slightly out of date, but I want to point out that I think what the study talks about has only become more true over time, and I think experience shows and data shows that it has become a much bigger deal over time. And it really was focused on what percentage of revenue for most companies did marketing directly influence?

Now, before I answer the question, I want to point out I’m a marketing guy. I’m all about "are we creating great marketing that drives people to our brand and our business?" So, I would love for this to be a really big number, right? I have a vested interest in this number being, you know, epically large. But what the data shows is that marketing maybe influences about 30% of purchase decisions. You know, most of what influences purchase decisions is something other than marketing. And I suspect this is still true.

When I talk to companies, when I talk to clients, when I talk to other customers, they often talk about the other things that drove their purchase decision beyond just, you know, they saw a great ad, or they saw a search ad, or they thought the website was really great, right? And it really gets back to something I’ve talked about before here on the show, which is how customer experience is queen.

I had a funny experience years ago. I worked for a hotel company, and one of the brand managers for one of the brands that I worked with was fairly frustrated, you know, came to me one day and said that she didn’t believe the website did a great job of conveying her brand’s value proposition. And so I asked, I said, "What is you brand’s value proposition? What differentiates your brand from all the other hotel brands out there?" And I’m not saying this to be mean to her, but she kind of had a blank stare for a few minutes, and she said, "You know, it’s a fair point. I’ll know it when I see it."

And I thought, okay, that’s something maybe we need to work on a little bit, right? Because obviously the experience that someone had in one of our hotels from the moment they walked in to the moment they checked out was going to shape their perception of the brand far more than anything we could do on the web, especially at that time. I mean, this is not last year. This is several years back. And what we could from a user experience perspective was somewhat limited at the time.

And I think there are a handful of really interesting stories that illustrate what I’m talking about. One of my all time favorites is actually from 10 years ago. It’s when Howard Schultz returned to Starbucks as the CEO to turn the company around. They were struggling, and he rejoined the company. One of the first things he did was he cut the marketing budget, and again this is not something I want to see happen very often, but he cut the marketing budget to put more money into training, into training their baristas to make a good cup of coffee. He was interviewed in Harvard Business Review and he said, and this is a quote and it’s a relatively lengthy one. He said, "Unlike almost any other product or consumer brand, we have not been built through traditional marketing or advertising. It (meaning the company) has been built by the experience that I’ve just described and the only way we can succeed and sustain growth and new development and innovation and new dreams is the foundation of all of the future of the company is linked to the basic elements of one cup of coffee, one customer, and one barista at a time."

I think that’s an exceptionally wise point of view, because he’s really focused on how do we create a great customer experience every single time a customer interacts with one of our people providing the service, the barista, and with the product, the cup of coffee.

There’s another story I heard not long ago about Method soap. These are the people who make, you’ve probably seen these very cleverly designed soap dispensers in Target, in your local grocery store, etc., and there was a fantastic interview on Mixology with the CEO of method about how they chose in the direction that they did. And the story I had heard that led me to this interview was that they said cutting steel is a marketing expense, and what they mean by that is building the molds that shape the bottle that they put the bottle in is actually where they put their marketing dollars, right, because they were trying to create this great experience.

And in this Mixology interview, the CEO Andrew Ryan said, "That’s the role of design and the fragrance and the branding and the fun of it." So we would have people who essentially, what would happen is they would see it on the shelf because of the design. They would buy it, they would smell it in the stores, they’d buy it because of the fragrance, they would get home, use it, see what works, and eventually turn the bottle around and see that it’s good for them, good for the planet. That’s what helped create this cult following, and that’s what drove a lot of the loyalty. I’m going to continue this quote because it’s really fascinating.

He said, "When you talk to Method customers, you’ll find two different camps. You’ll find people who could care less about the environmental credentials of it. They just love the whole design experience of it. Then you can find people you really don’t care too much about the design, but they love the fact of our commitment to sustainability and human health."

So they’re really thinking about the overall experience right down to the packaging as opposed to a great ad campaign, or a great marketing effort.

Now, at the time, that interview was from 2012, and at the time they had had over $100 million in revenue at Target alone. Sorry, the interview was in 2017 and he said four or five years ago, so in 2012 or thereabouts. So we can safely assume they were making more than $100 million in revenue focused on design, and they were just sold to SC Johnson earlier this year for an undisclosed sum. So clearly this was having an effect. And remember, they’re competing against the Proctor & Gambles of the world who spend more money on advertising and more money on marketing than any other company in the world.

Now why did it work? Well, it worked because their customers told their story. One of the things I continually talk about with clients is, you know, how can we get customers to participate in the creation and curation of a positive brand story, or our positive brand story? Because if we can do that, we’re putting ourselves in a position to win. We’re putting ourselves in a position to really succeed.

There was a great piece on VentureBeat about how Open Table used just a little bit of data, and you’ve heard me say that, you know, content is king, customer experience is queen, and data is the crown jewels. But using just a little bit of data to understand customer intent and what customers were trying to accomplish, and then changing the product, changing the experience to actually being more useful for the people using it, and thus get them to use it more.

So again, it’s really about how you create this great experience that will get your customers to want to talk about you, to want to use you regularly, to come back again and again. Now, that doesn’t mean that marketing isn’t valuable. Again, if we’re giving credit to marketing for about 30% and you would not want to walk away from 30% of your business by any stretch. Nobody would. So this isn’t that marketing isn’t important, it’s that we have to remember the other 70% too. That’s what’s more important than marketing.

What is the customer experience you’re creating? What data are you using to build that customer experience and learn what’s working, and make it, in the words of Seth Godin, more remarkable for your customers? Because if you can do that, if you can create this extraordinary experience that gets people to com back again and again and again, you may find out that marketing is less than 30% of your benefit and of your results because you don’t need it to be, because your customers will do the work for you. And if you can accomplish that, you’re putting yourself in very rare company indeed.

Now, looking at the clock on the wall, we are out of time for this week. I do want to remind you that you can find the show notes for today’s episode as well as an archive of all past episodes by going to timpeter.com/podcast. Again, that’s timpeter.com/podcast. You can also find us on Spotify, on iTunes, on Stitcher Radio, on Google podcasts, whatever your favorite podcatcher happens to be. Just do a search for Thinks Out Loud, we should show up for that. You can find me on Facebook using the URL faceobok.com/timpeterassociates, on Twitter using the Twitter handle @tcpeter, and via email by sending an email to podcast@timpeter.com. Again, that’s podcast@timpeter.com.

Once again, I want to thank our sponsor, Solo Segment, focused on AI driven content discovery and site search analytics to unlock revenue. Check them out at solosegment.com to improve search results and improve your customer satisfaction too.

With that, I hope you have a wonderful weekend, a fantastic week ahead, and I will look forward to speaking with you again here on Thinks Out Loud next week. Until then, take care everybody.

Tim Peter

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August 10, 2018

Who Owns the Customer? Marketing or Digital? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 226)

August 10, 2018 | By | No Comments

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Who Owns the Customer? Marketing or Digital? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 226)

Who Owns the Customer? Marketing or Digital? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 226) – Headlines and Show Notes

Subscribe to Thinks Out Loud

Contact information for the podcast: podcast@timpeter.com

Past Insights from Tim Peter Thinks

You might also want to check out these slides I had the pleasure of presenting recently about the key trends shaping marketing in the next year. Here are the slides for your reference:

Technical Details for Thinks Out Loud

Recorded using a Heil Sound PR 30 Large Diaphragm Multipurpose Dynamic Microphone through a Cloud Microphones CL-1 Cloudlifter Mic Activator and a Mackie Onyx Blackjack USB recording interface into Logic Express 9 for the Mac.

Running time: 14m 8s

You can subscribe to Thinks Out Loud in iTunes [iTunes link], the Google Play Store, via our dedicated podcast RSS feed )(or sign up for our free newsletter). You can also download/listen to the podcast here on Thinks using the player at the top of this page.

Who Owns the Customer? Marketing or Digital? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 226) – Transcript

Well, hello again everyone and welcome back to Thinks Out Loud, your source for all the digital marketing expertise your business needs. My name is Tim Peter. Today is Friday, August 10th and this is Episode 226 of the big show.

As I mentioned last week, we have a new sponsor for thinks out loud and that sponsor is SoloSegment. I'd like to thank them very much for their support. SoloSegment is all about site search analytics and on AI-driven content discovery and improving search results in customer satisfaction. You can check out solosegment@solosegment.com and once again I thank them for their support. I think we've got a really, really cool show for you. There's a lot going on this week. It started out when I shared a post on Linkedin by Christopher S. Penn and what Christopher was talking about is how the end of digital marketing is near.

Basically, his point is that digital is so integral to our lives now that it's not separate from marketing, it's just, you know, it's just out there. It's just regular marketing in and of itself. Now, this obviously resonated with me very well. I've been talking for a long, long time about how it's all e-commerce— and I'll get back to that point in a minute — but clearly this has resonated with folks. The piece itself has more than 227 shares and just my brief mention of it on LinkedIn has almost 1700 views and a bunch of comments in just a few days. Now, many of the comments really resonated with me. Steve Cummins had a great point where he said, "This is true. Naturally we start off by segmenting things that are new and then they come back to the center. Over time it helps them to get traction and helps people to focus where to hone their skills," which I think is exactly right. I think that's very smart.

And there were two other comments that really jumped out at me as well. Max Starkov, who I've known for years, Max is from a company called HeBS, said "The days of distinction between traditional and digital marketing are long gone, exclamation point in hospitality. It has been digital first for at least 15 years and digital only for at least eight years now." Barry Cunningham was even more since succinct. He said, "That's over a year old. Not sure it's still relevant. It's like a lifetime in internet time."

So I replied to Barry. I said, "Unfortunately it's all too relevant for many businesses and industries who don't see that as reality yet. You'd be amazed the number of product-focused or sales-led organizations who still tell me, yeah, but my customers don't really use the Internet to buy my products.

They talked to our sales people, reps, etc. instead." Barry's response: "That's nuts. Dinosaurs!" Exclamation point.

Now this is amazing to me. Obviously just last week I asked whether you should abandon digital the way it looks like GE is, and as I noted in my reply to Barry, at least three times this week I spoke with groups of executives, marketing executives, among them who basically talked about digital as being somehow separate from marketing. That these are two distinct disciplines with nothing to do with one another, no relationship at all, which blows my mind that this is still a conversation that we're having. You know, this isn't new. In 2013, I wrote a piece for the Biznology blog that asked is paid search part of marketing. Even further back in 2009, I wrote a piece as part of a point/counterpoint debate that asked is digital marketing a core skill for today's marketers?

By the way, I'm going to link to all of these in the show notes. The question I would have is, how is it possible 10 years later, we're still having this debate? How are we still having this debate, especially when some folks like Max and Barry think the debate is long since settled? Now, as I mentioned a moment ago, I'm pretty in line with Max and Barry. I wouldn't go so far as to call people who hold the opposite view dinosaurs, but it's definitely not something that there's this core distinction between digital and marketing any longer. Just the other day I wrote another piece that asked why are marketers still afraid of data and at least as far back as 2011, I've been talking about how it's all e-commerce — and I know for sure that I was using the phrase long before I wrote piece. So how are we still having this debate?

Well, I think there's a reason for it and I think digital marketers specifically and marketers more generally are to blame and the reason is because too often when we talk about what we do, we get really excited about the tech and not the people. To me that's no wonder that "traditional marketers" — and I'm very much using air quotes for traditional marketers — but that's no wonder that traditional marketers don't get us, that they don't think we're part of their tribe.

The bigger problem though is the traditional marketers are just as guilty. As I pointed out in my Biznology piece the other day, they're using data too. And as Max and Barry and I believe, there's plenty of leakage between the various marketing disciplines already. It's not black and white, but we get hung up on the data and we get hung up on targeting and we get hung up on devices and we get so hung up on all the tools and the techniques that we get trapped into thinking about what we can do instead of thinking about the customer, instead of thinking about the person. You know, I'm always reminded of that scene in Jurassic Park where Dr. Ian Malcolm is taking the owner of the park to task. You know, he says "We're so busy wondering if we could, we haven't always stopped to think if we should." Think about all the times that we've said, you know, mobile first. Well, as I've asked a couple of times, it's not mobile first, why isn't it customer first? Is it the device that matters or is it the person that's using the device that matters?

And by doing this we've sort of decoupled people's humanity here. We've decoupled the people from the situation and we're only now starting to see implications of this. In a way, GDPR has come about because many marketers, many digital marketers, many traditional marketers, et cetera, grabbed all the data they could — all the data available — without thinking about the human implications. I've mentioned many times before here that digital is like gravity, you know. It becomes this thing that can be a real problem because, yes, it can absolutely be a useful tool, It can absolutely be beneficial to you, but also you can fall off a cliff if you do it wrong. You know, as the phrase I've used before a goes, when you invent the ship, you invent the shipwreck

And I think it's only going to get worse if we don't get our hands around it. Now you know, we're about to start incorporating AI into what we do and we have to think about the implicit biases we're introducing into those AI's as we look to understand our customers more deeply, as we look to pull apart our customer segments more. You know, there was a fascinating book by Cathy O'Neil a couple of years ago called "Weapons of Math Destruction" and no, I did not slur or list it is math, M-A-T-H destruction, but O'Neil, you know, outlines the many ways we can hurt customers, we can hurt citizens, by deploying algorithms and AI without thinking through the biases inherent in those programs. Now, I read the book for the first time a couple of years ago and I dismissed O'Neil's wildest fears as a slippery slope argument, unlikely to occur regularly in the real world. Fast forward a couple years now. I'm not so sure.

Think about all the things we've seen over the past year or so with data problems on Facebook and the Cambridge Analytica things and all of these, you know, mini-scandals and mini-crises and some not-so-mini-scandals and not-so-mini-crises that have come about because of how we're using data about customers. There was a really fascinating and thought-provoking piece for Quartz a week ago that explained quote, "everything bad about Facebook is bad for the same reason" unquote. And it's really about how they've not looked at the human being. They've not looked at the person. Now, I don't know that I completely agree with, uh, Sonnad's piece. But I do think it's worth thinking about in detail as we go forward.

When we talk about marketing, when we talk about digital, we often talk about who owns the customer. And that's starting to concern me the more I think about it because nobody owns the customer, the customer owns themselves. I think a more important question that we need to start taking a look at is who looks out for the customer? Whose job is it to look after your customer? Whose job is it to think through the implications of what we do in digital and with data? That's true whether you're a quote-unquote digital marketer, whether you're a quote-unquote tradItional marketer or whether, you know, you're just a marketer because really they're the same thing. We need to start thinking about how are we looking out for our customer? How are we taking care of our customer?

I want to be clear. I don't claim to have all the answers here. I think this is a big, huge question that we need to start getting our arms around and I do know that I'm through having a debate about quote-unquote digital versus marketing.

Instead, I think it's time that we start asking the core questions about who serves our customers, who helps them, who looks out for them. That's what's really important. Because ultimately, if we don't take care of our customers, it won't matter if we're in traditional marketing or digital marketing or anything. Because ultimately if we don't take care of our customers, we won't have any customers.

Now, looking at the clock on the wall, we are out of time for this week. I want to remind you, you can find the show notes for today's episode as well as an archive of all past episodes by going to timpeter.com/podcast. Again, that's timpeter.com/podcast, and while you're there, simply click on the links you find to subscribe to us in iTunes, Stitcher Radio, Google Podcasts, or whatever your favorite podcatcher happens to be. You can also find us on Spotify. And while you're there, please feel free to provide us a rating that tells all your friends and family and fans and followers how much you enjoy Thinks Out Loud every single week. You can also find us on facebook at facebook.com/timpeterassociates on twitter using the twitter handle @tcpeter or on email using the email address podcast@timpeter.com. Again, that's podcast@timpeter.com. Once again, I'd like to thank our sponsors SoloSegment, that's SoloSegment, who provides site search analytics and AI-driven content discovery to unlock revenue. You can find them solosegment.com.

And with that I want to thank you, especially, for tuning in. I hope you have a really wonderful weekend, an amazing week ahead and I will look forward to speaking with you again here on Thinks Out Loud next week. Until then, take care everybody.

Tim Peter

By

August 3, 2018

GE Abandons Digital: Is it Time For You to Give Up Too? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 225)

August 3, 2018 | By | No Comments

GE Abandons Digital: Is it Time For You to Give Up TooLooking to drive results for your business? Click here to learn more.


GE Abandons Digital: Is it Time For You to Give Up Too? (Thinks Out Loud Episode 225) – Headlines and Show Notes

Subscribe to Thinks Out Loud

Contact information for the podcast: podcast@timpeter.com

Past Insights from Tim Peter Thinks

You might also want to check out these slides I had the pleasure of presenting recently about the key trends shaping marketing in the next year. Here are the slides for your reference:

Technical Details for Thinks Out Loud

Recorded using a Heil Sound PR 30 Large Diaphragm Multipurpose Dynamic Microphone through a Cloud Microphones CL-1 Cloudlifter Mic Activator and a Mackie Onyx Blackjack USB recording interface into Logic Express 9 for the Mac.

Running time: 13m 07s

You can subscribe to Thinks Out Loud in iTunes [iTunes link], the Google Play Store, via our dedicated podcast RSS feed )(or sign up for our free newsletter). You can also download/listen to the podcast here on Thinks using the player at the top of this page.

Tim Peter

By

July 31, 2018

There Are Two Ways To Grow Hotel Direct Business. One Of Them Has A Future

July 31, 2018 | By | No Comments

Grow Hotel Direct Business: Guest searching for hotel reservations Looking to drive results for your business? Click here to learn more.


Here where are in mid-2018, gearing up for our 2019 budget season, and once again everyone’s talking about how important it is to grow hotel direct business and get guests to book direct. Brands are putting increased emphasis on loyalty — or at least on offering heavily discounted rates to guests willing to sign up for their loyalty program. Individual hotels are touting their best rate guarantees — or offering heavily discounted rates… Are you sensing a theme here?

In truth, all this is great. Seriously. I’m absolutely in favor of driving direct business. But too often it’s focused on the booking. And on discounting. We’re spending money to buy the booking. Why aren’t we willing to invest to buy interest earlier in the process? We’ve become so focused on the booking, we sometimes forget how to talk to guests before they’re ready to book.

It’s time to change that reality.

Why OTA’s are Winning

One study shows that guests who start their booking journey on an OTA reserve through OTA’s around 93% of the time. Meaning that guests who start on an OTA will choose to book direct only about 7 times out of 100. By contrast, guests who start on a branded website book direct about 60% of the time (though, admittedly, they may not always choose your property to book direct).

To put it more plainly, guests can’t book direct, ever, if they don’t come to your property or brand website at some point while shopping for travel. Period.

So where’s the investment in attracting guests to visit early in their decision-making process — the dream and plan phases, not just when they’re ready to book.

Think of it this way. A 150-room property selling for $130/night and running at 64% occupancy with an 18% OTA margin — all roughly average in the current market — typically surrenders about $100,000 in topline revenue to OTA’s. How many have demonstrated the willingness to invest a healthy share of that amount in content creation to attract guests early in their browsing, shopping, buying activity? We’ve said for years that content is king; shouldn’t we be more willing to invest in it?

By contrast, that same representative property will generate roughly $900,000 in revenue through its website (assuming industry-average 20% website revenue and giving no credit to web for voice or walk-in). If you include voice and property-direct, those numbers roughly double. How much are you willing to invest to drive that number higher? Would $50k sound too expensive? Remember, that’s still half what you’re already paying OTA’s.

Content Marketing Matters for Hotels

Does this sound crazy to you? Well, here’s a crazy idea for you: Google has announced a new program that brings a professional video director to your business to shoot a video advertisement. The price tag? $350 in YouTube advertising. That’s it. The search giant clearly understands what customers want; those customers literally tell Google what’s important to them millions of times every single day. Do you think Google might know something useful here about customer behavior?

Guests are starved for content about your property, your destination — the attractions, events, shops, festivals, concerts, entertainment and businesses near to you. And the first rule of selling travel to consumers remains “sell the destination first.” Research from Google shows that travelers tend to start their travel planning by searching destination-related terms. This is a huge opportunity to attract guests to you early in their planning, place your property at the center of their consideration set, and then turn them into reservations. But only if you’re willing to make the investment.

Growing Direct Business — Conclusion

Budget season is right around the corner. It’s time to start thinking about where to put your money, where to invest to grow your business next year. This isn’t about building a new website or finding a new booking engine or — heaven help us — planning for a new “closed user group” you can sell your property to more cheaply. This is about investing in “the painting” — your property’s content — not just “the frame.” It’s about telling a story designed to attract and capture interest from potential guests. It’s about getting them to start their journey with your hotel in mind.

Or you could just continue to pay “loyalty” programs and OTA’s and intermediaries to do that for you — to you — again. But I wouldn’t recommend it.

If you’re looking to learn even more about how changing customer behavior will shape your marketing going forward, be sure an register to receive a special report I’ve produced in conjunction with hotel marketing firm Vizergy, “Digital Hotel Marketing in a Multiscreen World.” While it’s targeted specifically at hotel and resort marketers, the lessons apply to just about any business. You can get your free copy of the report here.

You might also want to check out these slides I had the pleasure of presenting recently about the key trends shaping marketing in the next year. Here are the slides for your reference:

Finally, you might enjoy some of these past posts from Thinks to help you build your e-commerce strategy and your digital success:

Note: A version of this post originally appeared on Hotel News Now, where Tim Peter writes a regular column for the magazine’s Digital Tech Impact Report.

Tim Peter

By

July 30, 2018

The End of Millennials (Thinks Out Loud Episode 224)

July 30, 2018 | By | No Comments

The End of Millennials (Thinks Out Loud Episode 224)Looking to drive results for your business? Click here to learn more.


The End of Millennials (Thinks Out Loud Episode 224) – Headlines and Show Notes

Have we reached the end of Millennials as a marketing demographic? No. But if you think about them as adults under forty, you might have a better sense of what they mean to your business. Today’s episode of Thinks Out Loud explores that in detail. And here are the show notes to help you learn even more.

Subscribe to Thinks Out Loud

Contact information for the podcast: podcast@timpeter.com

Past Insights from Tim Peter Thinks

You might also want to check out these slides I had the pleasure of presenting recently about the key trends shaping marketing in the next year. Here are the slides for your reference:

Technical Details for Thinks Out Loud

Recorded using a Heil Sound PR 30 Large Diaphragm Multipurpose Dynamic Microphone through a Cloud Microphones CL-1 Cloudlifter Mic Activator and a Mackie Onyx Blackjack USB recording interface into Logic Express 9 for the Mac.

Running time: 12m 46s

You can subscribe to Thinks Out Loud in iTunes [iTunes link], the Google Play Store, via our dedicated podcast RSS feed )(or sign up for our free newsletter). You can also download/listen to the podcast here on Thinks using the player at the top of this page.